To start off – instead of getting my hobbyist readers all pumped up about going full time – I’m going to share a sobering thread from WoodNet. It’s called:
Burned out, and it’s a cautionary tale of what can happen if you’re successful too soon with your venture. Here’s a choice quote from the OP (original poster):

“I should have kept this a hobby, something to do in my spare time. But the passion got the best of me, and I made it into a full-time job. Now the dream has turned into a nightmare. All I want is a casual, free-form woodshop where I can create to my heart’s content. But doing so would not make me a living, so I’d have to get a real job. But the real job would get in the way of the passion and creativity, and I’d be caught in this same cycle of burning desire to create, but no time to do it. To those for whom this is still a hobby, I envy you.”

Let that ring in your ears for a moment: “To those for whom this is still a hobby, I envy you.”

Granted, this is a fellow at his bleakest, darkest moment. Also, it’s someone who got the opportunity to go all the way and he rushed into it, probably before he was ready. In addition to some great pricing advice in that thread, further on comes a great suggestion: “Maybe you should think about finding something part time just to take some of the pressure to produce off. It is also a big help when you are able to start picking and choosing your jobs. All I do now is period furniture which is where my passion really lays.”

In short, don’t quit your day job until you’re comfortable with the realities of your new venture.

If you stuck around through my lecture and finger wagging then you’re serious enough ;) Without further ado, here are some pricing guidelines and further discussions for woodworkers curious about how to price their goods and services.

>> Pricing Custom Work, Custom Services
Custom furniture and other custom services pricing are one common area of discussion. Some sample “pricing models” from the forums:

“My shop rate is $60/hr plus material marked up by 20%.” FamilyWoodworking

“(Supplies)+(Hours invested * what your time is worth to you)” LumberJocks

“Material cost (with 20% markup) plus approx. $25/hr. for all your labor (milling, assembly, finishing)” SawmillCreek

General threads on pricing custom furniture and cabinetry:
Contractor Pricing (GREAT discussion for potential woodworking contractors…)
Review: The Woodworker’s Guide to Pricing Your Work
help pricing osage rocker
How do I decide on a price for my work?
Help with pricing cabinetry
“New here, pricing questions”
Job Pricing? (sticking to your price when prospect starts negotiating)
Pricing? (for small restoration jobs)
pricing for a labour of love (great for general pricing philosophy of high-quality installation and furniture)
first post – pricing question

>> Pricing Turning (Bowls, etc…)
If you’re new to turning and are curious about pricing, check out this thread at SawmillCreek – you might get bowled over by what some of those artists are asking. There are no numbers regarding how many they sell :) Here are some rules of thumb from forums I read:

“I’ve read of some folks who price by the inch (in diameter), and add or subtract from that number based on the uniqueness of the wood. Here again, your market will dictate the price, but I’ve seen some guys who shoot for $5 per inch, and others who go for $10.” FamilyWoodWorking

“Obviously your local market defines in part what a bowl will bring but a rule of thumb I have seen is $8.00 and inch wholesale and $10.00 an inch retail.” SawmillCreek

“For a starting point, some people use a size-based pricing system, say $10 per inch of diameter, plus another $10 per inch of height. In this case, an 8″ x 3″ bowl would be priced at $110.” Family Woodworking

Threads on pricing turned work:
Pricing your work (general)
New Turner Pricing
Interesting pricing for turnings (big bucks)
Pricing for a newbie? Salt and Pepper Mills
Bowl Pricing
Pricing on Baseball Bats

>> Pricing Pens
Pens are another highly-sellable item that many folks can crank out. They have a bit more material cost with all that metal and ink. Here’s how some people figure out pricing:

“Materials
Time. Say 25.00 per hour.
+ 20-30% markup.
Profit is in markup.
Pay yourself for your time. Thats the paycheck. The markup is profit, to be able to purchase new tools, etc.” SawmillCreek

“The pricing question comes up frequently on the penturning forums. Everyone has their own take. For many, they simply go 3X cost of materials.” FamilyWoodworking Family Woodworking

Threads on pricing pens:
I need some help on Pricing
Pricing Advice
“pricing pens for sale”
“redeemed previous pricing blunders”

>> Craft Fair Pricing + General Experiences
One question I’d like to get into in the future is WHERE to sell. Thankfully the affable and highly-knowledgeable Vaughn McMillan has a couple of great threads at Family Woodworking with some good advice and direction.

“…the canopy, sign, tables, table covers, and a few baskets from Ikea have set me back about $600 – $700. (And that’s after doing a lot of price shopping.) I’m learning this is not for the weak at heart. Just means that much more stuff to sell before breaking even. Glad I’m not doing this for a living.” FamilyWoodworking

“after having done much field research in this matter I’ve found that having a line of work (small bowl, pen, top, etc) that includes items for $10-20 is very important.” FamilyWoodworking

“One booth selling $15 and $20 craft items nearly ran out of stock, but others selling similar products had slow sales all weekend. I don’t think the other two turners at the show did much (if any) better than me, and they had a lot more of the $20 to $100 range than I did.” FamilyWoodworking

Threads on craft fair selling:
Da Booth: Selling Work at Craft Fairs
Added Something to the Booth

>> Pricing Engraving Services
Professional and startup engravers have a strong presence over at SawmillCreek.org. Apparently there’s continual demand for their work from trophy and sign-type shops in local areas. Here are some tips, though less from the selling-to-another-business perspective (see below for that).

“If it’s a one-piece to be inlaid, I would charge as I would for a plaque, $xx times number of lines, plus $xx for laser time, plus your overhead and profit, plus any materials (x 3) that you have in it.” SawmillCreek

“I reckon on between $1 and $2 per square inch to do custom inlay/marquetry work with my laser – mostly around $2.” SawmillCreek

“Material Cost + Labor Cost + Profit Percentage + Overhead Percentage = Wholesale Cost” SawmillCreek

“The one year I had my ornaments in a Holiday Craft Sale, I found that the ones priced $3 sold well, those at $4 sold OK, anything $5 or more just sat there.” SawmillCreek

Pricing engraving work threads:
Suggestions on pricing Inlay with Engraver
pricing suggestions
Pricing Christmas Ornaments

>> Large Runs + Selling to Other Businesses for Resale (B2B)
From the forums it looks like there’s no shortage of work from local businesses. Is it “woodworking?” Well, yes. You’ll be using your woodworking tools, that’s for sure. These types of jobs are where you’re going to start thinking of yourself and your shop as a factory. Also useful from these discussions – making room in your price for the margins of those who are reselling your work…

For cutting out jigsaw puzzles: “I charge $1/minute.” SawmillCreek

“2-3 times materials and $1 per minute laser time, plus whatever time you spend prep and post work (shop rates are quite varied).” SawmillCreek

“I have several trophy/award/sign shops that come to me for these, most of them have only rotary engraving equipment. They got me to agree to a wholesale price of $30/hour for any setup and .50/minute for actual laser time. As it turns out with the low volume it’s really not worth it for me so get more than that.” SawmillCreek

Large run + B2B pricing threads:
JigSaw puzzle pricing help
pricing wood “poker” chips
pricing question for trophies and awards
Pricing a recognition award job?
pricing?? on quilt racks (commissioned by store then price negotiated down)

>> Pricing Signs
Similar to large runs, signs are another job woodworkers can land in service of businesses. Additionally, they could make nice craft fair items. Here’s some insight into pricing signs:

“Since there are fewer people that can handle the large jobs, I charge the greater of $65sf or $125 per laser hour “plus materials”. Additional finishing requirements are usually extra.” SawmillCreek

“I was happy with 2x material price plus a nice per hour rate, but I don’t know now.” SawmillCreek

Sign pricing threads:
Help on job pricing
Sign Pricing Help

>> Marketing Your Products Online
I’ve found 3 websites so far that exist solely to connect woodworkers with the buying public. And no, I’m not talking about eBay, Craigslist and Etsy ;) We featured one of them, CraftsmansWoodshop, in a recent article. Two of them are new – I originally had thought that custommade was new, but Mike corrected me (thanks Mike!).

http://www.craftsmanswoodshop.com/
http://www.custommade.com
http://www.finewoodartists.com/

>> More Resources, Articles, Guides, Books, Etc…
I will add more as I find them! If you know of any good ones, please let me know!

12 Simple Woodworking Projects that Sell Fast
How to get your work in Stores and Galleries
Free Web Exposure for Woodworkers (ideas for marketing online)
Woodworking Price Estimate Wizard
Markup & Profit: A Contractor’s Guide

The thread gets heated, especially when it comes to questions of a dog’s capacity to love and protecting dogs from sawdust or noise. That stuff’s not as interesting to us. Instead we took notable quotes from folks in the thread and arranged them into sections. Here’s what you’ll find:

>> Keeping the Dogs Outside for Safety
>> Dogs That Attack Power Tools
>> Dogs With Free Shop Passes
>> Funny Dog in the Shop Responses

Before getting into it, here’s a picture shared by WoodNetter Berone that sums up how many woodworkers feel about dogs in the shop:

>> Keep the Dogs Outside for Safety
As safety-conscious folks, we at ToolCrib.com have to advocate for a dog-free shop, especially when the power tools are on. We’re in the minority, but hey, we’re used to that too ;) Here are the folks who share our position.

“Just a WAG on my part but dogs in the shop could easily cause it to become a much worse hazard to you then it already is. It only takes a split second to lop off a couple of fingers because the pooch got in the way of your feet…. and I am a dog lover but not willing to give up some body parts to prove it..”
Howardly

“Mine just looks around for some cardboard to chew, ignores the machines. Have to tell her to go outside when I use the big machines so I don’t trip on her.”
FishmanDave

“The male (Lego) is my shadow. The few times I allowed him in my shop while working he finds a nice spot where he can lay and watch me. Noise or not, he is well behaved. One the other hand the female (Lucy) aka scurry-rat……well any noise and she is GONE in flash. However most of the time I do not let them hang out much for safety reasons. ”
gmebey

“Lady is allowed in the shop only when I’m not running the saws and the router. They are very noisey, and I usually have my earplugs attached. Her hearing is spectacular, far better than mine”
Edwin Hackleman

“The dogs ain’t allowed in my shop. It rains here 8-9 months of the year. The dogs are always wet. They come into a dry spot, they like to shake themselves off. In the shop, that’s all over some expensive cast iron.”
BarryO

“I work in an open garage, when I cut sand route etc., out they go, but very close by”

>> Dogs That Attack Power Tools
There’s one in every pack – the wacko dog who gets overexcited by power tools and wants to shove his nose where it doesn’t belong. Chances are good yours doesn’t do this, but here’s some stories from folks whose dogs DO go for the tools.

“Am dog-sitting with the neighbors Sheltie and he followed me into the shop this morning. No harm and I figured the first time I turned on a machine, he would get spooked and leave. WRONG! I pulled the trigger on the miter saw and he was right underfoot. Got so excited, I was afraid he would take a jump at it. (He isn’t very bright.) Had to put him outside for both his and my safety.”
3finger

“I was on a jobsite using a chop saw. Fired it up and this little pug comes running over to inspect it. I think he would have put his nose in the blade if I had let him. That sort of behavior is the exception however. Most dogs are smart enough to head the opposite direction of the noise. Again, you win some and you lose some. There have to be some dumb ones to make the rest look good.”
Anak

>> Dogs With Free Shop Passes
Some people have an open door policy with their dogs in the shop. In many cases the dogs use that open door to exit on their own when the big tools go on. However, some dogs just keep napping. Here are stories from folks who let the dogs come and go as they want.

“Mine is very rarely out there, but she just ignores them. Mostly she just chews on scraps in the cut off bin.”
badwhiskey

“As the LOML tends to spoil them rottom they are basicly like a couple of extra kids in the family. They usually find a scrap piece of wood to chew on and find a place to lay down and amuse themselfs. At least untill I turn the router table or planer on. Other than that they are content to watch me work and usually don’t get under foot.”
Datahead

“Okay, here’s my pal for the past 13 years. Used to run out when the planer started until i got the spiral. When she could see, she’d answer to hand commands. Basically finds the coolest spot and curls up. Used to move when you came near, now you have to move around her.”
SeanG

“Our Cocker Spaniel goes right to the treat drawer in the shop. Then finds the largest sawdust pile, and lay’s in it. She is no problem at all.”
Superglide

“One hates them the other doesn’t seem to pay them any mind. Just like people. They all have different personalities I guess”
balljoints

“Mine shys away when machines are running but when they shut of she runs in to make sure I’m ok.”
bobthebgningbldr

“A trained dog is a safe dog. Teach her to “stay” in one spot if she’s gotta be in the shop with you and you’ll be fine. Most dogs just want to watch what their “alpha” does, but the herding dogs, like Shelties (and my Australian Blue Heeler/mix) want to be under your feet and therefore the need to train them to stay away. With my dog, she wants to be underfoot when I’m cooking, so now she’s got her own spot where she can watch me, but not be in the way. I just tell her to “go lie down” and she’s happily in that spot until I’m done.”

>> Funny Dog in the Shop Responses
Some people are funny. If I laughed or even smiled and nodded my head, it went in this section ;)

“It is so time consuming to outfit my dog with the respirator, goggles and hearing protection, that, I leave her outside when the machines are in use.”
Humanbackhoe

“My two springer spaniels are obsessed with playing fetch. If I ignore them they drop the ball under a cabinet or table and then whine until I retrive it for them. I’m sure I could have completed every project I’ve ever thought about doing years ago if I didn’t have to keep stoppingt to throw the ball.”
ianjwebster

“Mine finds the spot with the highest traffic pattern for that day and lays down right in the middle of it.”
Lance H

Check out the original thread here: A Question To Those With 4-legged “Helpers” In the Shop. Is your dog allowed in the shop?

Folks, we heartily welcome back the man you know as KnotScott! You’ve seen him in forums, but now he’s taken his show on the road! Find out the latest news, tips, tricks and debates from the wide world of woodworking forums as KnotScott guides you through the best woodworking forum threads of recent days!

What Bandsaw To Get: See what models are being talked about for hobbyists in the popular $400-$500 price range.
Woodwhisperer Forum

Molding Head Cutter: Ever wonder what a molding head cutter could do for you that a router can’t? Read on to see the variety of opinions on this unusual accessory.
Woodwhisperer Forum

Best Glue: Here’s a thread that sheds some light on woodworking glue brand and type preferences. WoodNet

‘27 Model “T” Truck: There have been some truly remarkable projects posted on these forums over the years, but few that caught my attention the way John Fry’s endeavor has. Here’s what happens when you combine great craftsmanship with a very worthy application.

Also see Routing the flamed bed for the 27 “T” (PIX)

Enjoy!
WoodNet

Best Miter Gauge: There are a host of excellent aftermarket miter gauges available. Read what other woodworkers use, and what they like and don’t like about them.
LumberJocks

Let’s Talk “Drill Press”: Want to know what to look for a drill press?
WoodNet

Do I Really Need a High Dollar Table Saw?: This discussion takes us on a philosophical journey about what we really need to get the task done, versus what we want or think we need. Some definite food for thought…
WoodNet

Previous Posts by KnotScott:
Knotscott’s Forum Thread Picks: Maloof’s Passing, Common Woodworking Errors, Planers and More!

KnotScott’s Wide World of Woodworking: Saw Stop Blades, Hot Router Deals, Classic Table Saw Debate and MORE!

Hi gang! Knotscott here to share some recent woodworking forum discussions. As a regular on forums like Woodnet.net, Lumberjocks.com, Woodwhisperer.com, SawmillCreek.org, FamilyWoodworking.org, BT3Central.com, Finewoodworking.com, WoodMagazine.com, Woodworkingtalk.com, Woodworkerszone.com, and CanadianWoodworking.com, I get the chance to see quite a few interesting threads.

I’ve picked out a few recent highlights that might offer some points of interest for you…

Sam Maloof, 1916-2009 – Sam Maloof may not have been a recognizeable household name like Norm Abrams, but was a true legend of our era, and was well known by most woodworkers. Sam was best known for his sleek elegant hand crafted chairs and rockers, but he was also admired for his wisdom, insights, and humility. A truly great man and woodworker has passed away at 93. Read comments about his life and career…

Common Woodworking Errors – The title says it all! Here’s an honest litany of confessions by veterans and rookies alike. Read up if you’re curious about what to avoid, or if you’re just wondering if you’re the only one who makes that mistake…

“Do I need a planer?” – There are lots of tools that you don’t absolutely need, but most can sure make life easier…and a planer is certainly one tool I wouldn’t want to be without…

A Good 10″ Saw Blade – Saw blade technology has improved so much in recent years that it can be hard to stay up to date. Few discussions draw out opinions as varied as saw blades. See what blades others like and why…

Router Bits – There’s really no right or wrong way to buy router bits, but there are different philosophies about how, when, and what to buy. Which approach works best for you?

Drill Press Mortising Attachments…Do these things really work? Most woodworking discussions are riddled with opinions that vary as widely as the personalities who post them, but the universal dislike for DP mortisers is astonishingly universal!

Left Tilt/Right Tilt Table Saws – Woodworking’s “Tastes Great/Less Filling” debate rages on. Read about the pros and cons of both table saw types…you may not have been aware of all of them.

(ed note: this is a first-time writing by Knotscott – we’re really hoping he continues to contribute his expertise and wide-ranging forum participation to the woodworkers reading ToolCrib.com! -Thanks Scott! -Garrett)

Woodnetter devildog1024 stirred up a whole mess of conversatin’ when he asked: “What do you do with your power tool cases? I have a dozen stacking up in my shop. Throw them out or keep them?”

Woodnetters responded. I counted their responses.

Before digging in, I observed a pattern: the guys who keep their tools mobile (contractors/nomadic types) vs. the shop-use only guys who don’t move their tools around much. Obviously, the mobile guys hang on to their cases for dear life, while the shop-use guys sold, recycled, donated the cases.

That said, there were a number of shop-use onlies who kept the cases to store the tools… and a couple that built shelving to fit the cases… but ONLY if space was not an issue.

Also, I was surprised that there’s such an aftermarket demand for cases… I saw prices ranging from $5-$25 each.

The list below is in order of frequency of mentions. #1, “tool transportation,” was mentioned 11 times by Woodnetters, and #13, “target practice,” was mentioned once.

Ok, enough observation ;P I now humbly submit to you 13 Things to Do With Power Tool Cases:

1) Tool transportation (jobsite transport, moving, etc): 11
2) Recycle/trash them: 8
3) Store tools in them: 8
4) Sell them: 5
5) Store chargers, accessories and manuals in them: 5
6) Save for when/if selling the tool: 3
7) Modify them for storing other items/tools (blades and bits): 3
8) Store tools in them until storage is built/cleared: 2
9) Built cabinet to store the tools in cases
10) Donate them to Habitat for Humanity
11) Compost/worm container
12) Locators for crab pots – sealed with silicone
13) Use for target practice

In case you were wondering, yes the last three are my favorite… And they’re in order (11, 12, 13) of how you could get the maximum use out of a single case ;)

Thanks to WoodNet:
What do you do with your power tool cases?

More Resources for Hoarders, Cheapskates and Other Woodworker Types:
Lumber Salvage: The Top 10 Sources for Cheap, Free and Recycled Wood
Woodworking Through the Economic Crisis: 11 Resources for Stretching Your Woodworking Budget
28 Ways to Recycle and Reuse Sawdust and Woodchips
Woodworking with Pallets: A Guide to Finding, Breaking Down and Building with Pallets
The Harbor Freight Buying Guide
11 Ideas for Wood Cut Offs
11 Cheap, Recycled or Free Items Useful in the Wood Shop
Cheap, DIY Clamp Alternatives
The Cheapskate Woodworker Quiz

Planing with a jointer – a tedious but do-able process – is a lesser-recommended technique for finishing the faces of your boards.

This article isn’t a how-to – it’s a collection of all the how-to’s and forum discussions I could find on the subject. It usually takes me a few times hearing something before I understand (just ask my wife ;)) so I figure it won’t hurt you to hear it from several different perspectives.

Here’s what you’ll find:
>> 5 Planing with a Router Resources
>> 9 Pro Articles on Jointing with a Router Table
>> 7 Forum Discussions on Router Jointing
>> 1 Router Jointing Product
>> 2 Jointing with a Router Videos

>> 5 Planing with a Router Resources
Most pros say it’s impossible, maybe they mean it’s impossibly tedious. Here are the few router planing resources I could dig up:

Router sled planer
“This is a sled that I made a couple years back before I bought a portable planer. It can help you to get a clean face on some rough sawn lumber.”

Planing with a Router – RouterForums (where else? ;))
-note the majority of the excellent discussion here revolves around building your own thicknesser rather than planing with your router ;)

Detailed Description of Planing with a Router – From that Router Forum Thread
“A few weeks ago, I had to flatten a board… I don’t have a thickness planer, etc…. I thought of the Router method… I quickly made a jig to do it… It was super simple and it worked great!!”

Using a Router to plane a Board Face – Router Forums

Surfacing Stock with a Router
- No pics, good description

>> Edge Jointing with a Router
Edge Jointing with a router is one of the most common non-jointer methods for getting straight and true edges on rough-milled lumber.

>> 9 Pro Articles on Jointing with a Router Table
Jointing With A Router: A workable compromise – Tom Hintz
“Let’s be clear. A dedicated jointer will always be the best choice for straightening the edge of a board. With proper setup and technique an edge can be made reasonably straight and square with a router.”
-See his video below, in the video section.

JOINTING ON THE ROUTERTABLE – Pat Warner
“A routertable is no substitute for a jointer but it can be handy for the short run, especially when used on material unfriendly to HSS jointer knives.”

Jointing on a Router Table (PDF) – WoodSmith
“A jointer has separate infeed and outfeed tables that are offset from each other. To create the same effect on the router table, I attached a piece of plastic laminate to the left (outfeed) side of the router table fence.”

Jointing on router table WoodworkingTips
“Even if you don’t own a jointer, you can do a top-notch jointing job with a router table, a piece of plastic laminate, and a straight bit.”

Edge Jointing on a Router Table – David Thiel, DIY Network
“A really wavy edge may be difficult to deal with on a jointer, but with a jig you can take care of the problem on a router.”

Building the Poor Man’s Jointer (PDF) – Practical Sailor
“Even if you own one of the big 6-inch, cast iron variety, I’m betting that you’ll find lots of uses for this little one (and that you may never miss the big jointer, if you don’t have one).”

Jointing Boards With the Router -FineWoodworking Reader Write In
“If you don’t have a jointer, this easy-to-use jig lets you joint boards with a router.”

Can the router table serve as a jointer? – WoodShopDemos
“Can the router table serve as a joiner? About 6 years ago I was preparing a technical manual on a router table and the manufacturer insisted that it could work. I set it up and was amazed at how well it worked.”

Jointing on a Router Table: How to Use – ProvenWoodworking.com
“You can use your router table to joint the edges of wood. It is simple and fast. The results are excellent.”

>> 7 Forum Discussions on Router Jointing
problem jointing with router – LumberJocks
Excellent trouble-shooting discussion. Highly useful read for first-timers.

Edge jointing large stock with a router.
-AWESOME tutorial from the Woodwhisperer’s new forum.
“I do have a jointer, but still edge joint with a router for long boards. I find it easier to control, and sometimes quicker. Moving large or long stock over a 6″ jointer isn’t always an accurate process.”

jointing with a shaper – WoodWeb
“I do this everyday on a dedicated shaper I have setup to only edge joint lumber. I use an outboard fence, meaning that the work piece runs between the fence and cutter head.”

Jointing/Milling router jig – LumberJocks
“This jig can joint/mill anything from 1/4”-14”. I simply set the fence with a combination square & run it past a bottom bearing template bit.”

Router used as jointer – WoodNet
Good, basic discussion.

Jointing with a Router – RidgidForum
Basic discussion, useful observations.

Jointing long boards – RouterForums
Great discussions on edginglong stock with a router.

>> 1 Router Jointing Product
Using a Router Table as a Jointer
-A how-to from Rockler, with links to products they made for router jointing.

>> 2 Jointing with a Router Videos
Sometimes you have to see it to believe it. These videos will help you get the concept down.

Jointing With a Router (by Tom Hintz)

The Original Jimmy Jig/router jointing to a finished edge

>> 5 Problems with Trusting Magazine Power Tool Reviews:
These are problems that Family Woodworking members noted that crop up sometimes, not standing issues with every single magazine power tool review. I hold magazine reviews in high regard – as a writer/tool researcher for ToolCrib.com. Here are some of the problems mentioned in the discussion:

1) Missing Model Syndrome
Where there’s a new or even old model missing – like if someone left the Bosch Colt out of a trim router comparison.

2) Improper Category Groupings/Comparisons
Say if a hybrid saw ended up in a cabinet saw comparison.

3) Bias in Testing to Favor Advertisers
This is alleged of course. One kind of bias cited is when the tests themselves are skewed to favor the new feature set of a new tool. That happens to be advertised heavily in the magazine…

4) Won’t Say It’s a Total Dud
Reviewers seem reluctant to proclaim a no-buy status for tools, when often times they should. Some think this is out of fear of losing advertising dollars.

5) Tester Overload – Too Many Tools, Too Many Comparison Points
Sometimes there’s just too much data for one person to sort through. You can see this especially when it comes to the writing.

>> Problems with Trusting Forum Recommendations:
There are some inherent problems with trusting forum recommendations too – the same pretty much goes for user reviews in Amazon or Epinions or the like.

1) “Purchase Justification” Bias
This was well put in the Family Woodworking thread by Bill Satko: “It is hard to spend that money on a tool and be honest about it. There is a lot of justification that we need to do to feel good about the purchase. We also tend to be brand loyal. Just look at the Lie Nielson vs Vertias handplane posts in SMC & Knots.”

2) Haven’t Used All Tools in Category
How many people IRL (in real life) have used all the tools in a particular category? Even the seasoned veteran woodworker hasn’t used ALL the band saws out there. Maybe half of them, but never all of them.

>> What Does the Perfect Review Look Like?
There’s no perfect review except for YOUR review, but here are some of the ideas from the thread.

1) Consumer Reports
No ads = no bias. Still, they sometimes leave out important models, and can they really justify extending into the power tool space?

2) Multiple Unbiased Forum Reviewers
While this would be pricey for manufacturers, this idea from Chuck Thoits would give other consumers a pretty good direction to go in: “So the only way to fix that is for all the tool companies to send one of each of there tools to every member here with a list of tests. We test them and send the info to a central location to be compiled into one test result. You know. We had one hundred WW test these tools and the XYZ came out on top with 79% voting it best in its class. And here is what they said. XYZ cut faster had less hand fatigue blaa blaa blaa Tell me if you read a tool test like that you wouldn’t know which one you where going to look for in the store. ”

3) Multiple Editorial Reviews
This concept comes from Art Mulder, a sometimes writer for Canadian Home Woodworker: “That is one of the things I like about reviews in Canadian Home Workshop magazine — they have three reviewers. Each of the three tries out ALL the tools, puts them through the same paces, and then writes up their thoughts. They never totally agree. And you get different things like “I have small hands and this tool fit my hands better”, and so on.”

4) Aggregate Magazine Reviews, Forum Reviews and User Feedback
For the comparison reviews I write for ToolCrib I find all the magazine reviews I can, all the blog and web reviews as well as all the forum recommendations I can and stir them together in a very unscientific way… While I think these comparisons serve as a great starting point for purchase decision making, they could benefit from some objective process and some sort of ranking format (which I am working on by the way). MetaCritic and ConsumerSearch are two of my inspirations for this direction.

Here are a few of recent examples:
Top 16 Trim Routers: Bosch Colt vs. Makita vs. PC310 vs. Ridgid R2400 and MORE!
Top 10 Hybrid Table Saws: Craftsman vs. Grizzly vs. Steel City vs. Jet and MORE!
Best 14″ Bandsaws: Grizzly vs. Rikon vs. Powermatic vs. Laguna and More

So… how do you make your power tool purchase decisions?

Read more at Family Woodworking: Whats your view on Magazine Tool Reviews?

I found six formulas there, plus one about optimal workbench height from a woodworking tips site. I feel sure there’s more stuff out there on this, maybe from OSHA or something. Anyone have any ideas about the methodologies or science behind finding the best height for tools? I don’t think I know the right terms to search for.

1) Three Tool Height Zones
“The are at least three working height zones: Low (waist?) for power (e.g. TS, jointer, raising panels on RT (hence I also have RT on TS).

High (chest) for fine control, e.g., some hand and table routing,”
-docksider

2) 6′4″ Formula
“I’m 6′4″ and have some back issues having been broadsided by a truck so bending is an issue at times. Here’s my formula.

Lathe – headstock centerline is even with your bent elbow when standing straight.
RAS & TS – table is 4″ to 5″ below the bent elbow.
BS – One I have at 43″ and the other at 48″.
My Stationary Planer and Molding machine I raised up about 6″.”
-hcbph

3) Hands Flat at 45 Degrees
“I have found that if it involves a bench, such as work bench, table saw, band saw, router table, etc. I like the surface at a height that when standing straight up, I have to bend my elbows so that my forearm at 45 degree allows me to place my hands flat on the surface. This seems to negate the back pain issue.”
-mikerupp

4) 6′3″ = 41″
“I’m 6′3″ with back problems, and have all my tools at 41″. “
-GNP

5) 6′2″ = 36-39″
“I’m 6′2″ and find 36-39″ a good working height. More delicate work should be higher.”
-ned

6) Keep Everything High
“My drill press table is right at shoulder height. Works well for me.

1.) Close to eyes
2.) Less bending
3.) More storage underneath (Whether you need it or not)

Negatives,

1.) Lifting everything up a bit higher”
-Red Sawman

7) Measure to Your Wrist Crease
“We’ve used a lot of methods to determine the best height for a bench. But one simple method seems to give the best results. Just measure the distance from the floor to the crease on the inside of your wrist.”

Workbench Height from WoodworkingTips.com

More Resources
The optimum height of a woodworker
Foot Protection: Best Shoes for the Woodshop

Check out the Humble Pie video to learn Marc’s lessons in wood movement and then come back to take the quiz here to see how humble you really are ;)

Note – if your results show up for a second and then disappear just hit refresh. If it still isn’t working you can also go and take the quiz here >>

Are you a humble woodworker, or are you just modest? Maybe you’re “Green” and haven’t made enough mistakes to earn your humility ;)

This fun quiz will give you an idea of how humble you are.

1. Have you ever made a project too big to get out of your workshop?

More than once.

Once.

Never.

2. Have you ever forgotten to account for the WIDTH of the wood you’re working with?

More than once.

Once.

Never.

3. Have you ever made a project too big for the place it’s intended?

More than once.

Once.

Never.

4. Have you ever tried to unload your projects at a yard sale for CHEAP?

More than once.

Once.

Never.

5. Have you ever measured 3 times and still had to cut more than once?

More than once.

Once.

Never.

6. Have you ever made large batch cuts only to find out you made them the wrong size?

More than once.

Once.

Never.

7. Has your work ever developed MAJOR cracks because you didn’t account for wood movement?

More than once.

Once.

Never.

8. Made the same mistake twice or more… on the same project?

More than once.

Once.

Never.

Tags: humble, woodworker, quiz,, woodworking, quiz

Here’s what you’ll find in this article:
What is a Hybrid Table Saw? A Working Definition
When You Should Go for a Cabinet Saw Instead of a Hybrid
ToolCrib.com’s Top 10 Hybrid Table Saws
Hybrid Table Saw Ranking Resources

If you like this article then sign up for our email newsletter >> You can browse the ToolCrib.com newsletter archive here >>

Update: See the New Ridgid R4511 Granite Top Hybrid Table Saw. It’s liable to rank highly on this list once we get more information about it!

What is a Hybrid Table Saw? A Working Definition
In short, a hybrid table saw is larger than both the benchtop and contractor style table saws and smaller than the cabinet saw in terms of amperage. Some other key distinctions of the hybrid table saw include:

>usually cheaper than a cabinet saw
>has a cabinet for better dust control
>the motor’s inside the cabinet
>typically runs on 110v circuit
>often use contractor-style trunions

If you enjoy arguing on the internet you might appreciate the overly long semantical warfare of this WoodNet thread debating the difference (or lack thereof…) between cabinet saws and hybrids. It’s occasionally funny if you appreciate “zingers” and open hostility low-end cabinet saws vs. “high end” hybrids.

Also see:
Dumb question… what the heck is a “hybrid”?
Hybrid Table Saws
DIY Network: Exploring Hybrid Saws

When You Should Go for a Cabinet Saw Instead of a Hybrid
The Craftsman 22124 got 24 forum purchase recommendations, more than any other hybrid saw out there. I didn’t count them all, but I bet there were TWICE that many recommendations that woodworkers get a cabinet saw instead of a hybrid. Over and over (and over and over and over) woodworkers recommend to each other on forums that they spring for a low-end or used cabinet saw instead of a hybrid. This is not always an option for many woodworkers due to space, electric, or cash restrictions.

That said, if you’ve got upwards of $1,000 to drop you should at least consider the Grizzly 1023 (the #1 cheap cabinet saw recommendation by woodworking forum members).

ToolCrib.com’s Top 10 Hybrid Table Saws
Without further ado we proudly present the top 10 hybrid saws.

1) Craftsman 22124

Ranking:
24 Forum Recommendations
#2 ranking at Consumer Search >>

Craftsman 22124 Reviews:
Craftsman – 22124 Hybrid Tablesaw in Fine Woodworking
Craftsman Professional 10 in. Table Saw 22124 in Epinions
Craftsman Professional 10″ Hybrid Table Saw Lumber Jocks
Craftsman Professional 22124 10″ table saw in Lumber Jocks
Craftsman 221240 10-Inch Professional Tablesaw in Lumber Jocks
consumer review aggregation for Craftsman Professional 10 in. Table Saw
Craftsman Professional Table Saw Review in Palatable Woodworking

Forum Discussion on the 22124:
Craftsman 22124 compared to the GI 50-185M1 (sawmillcreek)
Sears 22124 vs Steel City 35670 saws (sawmillcreek)
Craftsman saw (woodnet)

List Price On 01-02-09:
$1199.99 >> (You can probably find it sub $800 if you wait for the right sale…)

2) Grizzly G0478

Ranking:
5 Forum Recommendations
Picked #1 at Tools of the Trade
#2 by Tom Begnal at Fine Woodworking
#2 in Popular Woodworking
#4 at Consumer Search

Grizzly G0478 Reviews:
Grizzly G0478 2 HP Hybrid Cabinet Saw Lumber Jocks
Grizzly 2 hp hybrid cabinet saw Lumber Jocks
4 1/2 stars with 11 reviews at Amazon

Forum Discussion on the G0478:
“Grizzly G0478 Hybrid Cabinet Table saw”
Grizzly G0478 or Jet JPS-10 (708482k)
Grizzly G0478 Cab Saw, anyone have one?
Before I leap, let me ask around! Buying the Grizzly G0478, (excellent grizzly fan flame war – funniest line: “Have fun humping your Griz when it arrives.”)
is this Grizzly hybrid a quality saw?
grizzly hybrid table saw

List Price as of 01/02/09:
$775.00 >>

3) Steel City 35670

Ranking:
6 Forum Recommendations
#1 in Popular Woodworking
#1 in Consumer Search

Steel City 35670 Reviews:
Steel City 35670 10 inch with 30-Inch fence, 1.75 hp, Cast Iron top in Lumber Jocks
Steel City 35900G in Consumer Search (a stoned, hybrid relative of the 35670)

Forum Discussions:
Anyone have the Steel City table saw 35670?
Sears 22124 vs Steel City 35670 saws
Steel City 65720 review
Jet ProShop vs SteelCity

List Price 01-02-09:
$1,099.99 >>

4) JET JPS-10

Ranking
13 Forum Recommendations
Tom Hintz reviewed and recommends this one regularly in forum discussions about hybrid saws
4 stars + 9 reviews in Amazon

Reviews of the Jet ProShop:
JET JPS-10TS ProShop Saw review by Tom Hintz

Forum Discussions:
“Jet ProShop Table Saw – Experiences or Opinions”
Jet Proshop vs TS3650 (Ridgid Forum)
Delta Hybrid or Jet Pro Shop (WoodNet)
Jet ProShop vs SteelCity

Video: JET ProShop Table Saw Review by Tom Hintz

List Price 01-02-09:
$999.99 >>

5) Woodtek 148-271

Ranking:
1 Forum Recommendation
#1 at Fine Woodworking for Value and Performance (which made this the most over-discussed saw of 2008…)
#3 at Consumer Search

Woodtek Reviews:
Woodtek – 148-271 Hybrid Tablesaw brief review by Fine Woodworking

Forum Discussion:
Wait for Woodtek 10″ Hybrid…or

List Price 01-02-09:
$929.99 >>

6) Dewalt DW746X

Ranking:
3 Forum Recommendations
#3 at Tools of the Trade

DeWalt DW746X Reviews:
DeWALT DW746X TABLE SAW
DeWalt Woodworker’s Table Saw DW746 (epinions)
4 stars, 17 reviews at Amazon

List Price 01-02-09:
$1,174.93 >>

7) Delta 36-717

Ranking:
2 Forum Recommendations

Delta 36-717 Reviews:
Delta – 36-717 Hybrid Tablesaw in Fine Woodworking
Delta 36-714 10-Inch Left Tilt Hybrid Saw Lumber Jocks
4 Stars + 34 Reviews at Amazon

Forum Discussion:
Delta Hybrid or Jet Pro Shop (WoodNet)
Delta 36-717 Hybrid/Biese BT3Central
Delta Hybrid SMC

List Price 01-02-09:
$1,149.00 >>

8) General 50-220C M1

Ranking:
1 Forum Recommendation

General 50-220C M1 Reviews:
General International Table Saw Model 50-220CL M1
General Int’l 50-200 Cabinet Table Saw Epinions

Forum Discussion:
General 50-220C Table Saw (SMC)

US Distributors for General >>

9) Shop Fox W1748

Ranking:
1 Forum Recommendation

List Price 01-02-09:
$979.99 >>

10) Hitachi C10LA

Hitachi C10LA Reviews:
Hitachi – C10LA Cabinet Saw – Roland Johnson in Fine Woodworking
Hitachi C10FL 10″ Stationary Table Saw Lumber Jocks

List Price 01-02-09:
$1,407.78 >>

Hybrid Table Saw Ranking Resources
The “forum recommendations” mentioned above are any time a forum member makes a purchase recommendation (”I have/had this saw and love/d it”) for a given saw. In the case of the Woodtek, which got great reviews from Fine Woodworking, there weren’t any forum/user reviews available so we ranked it lower than other more tried and true favorites. In cases where a saw had multiple thumbs up from magazines we ranked these above saws more popular in the forums. We tend to skew towards forum recommendations as a key indicator for making our recommendations though there are certainly issues of objectivity. That said, magazine reviews are far from objective too. ALWAYS try a saw before you buy to make sure it fits your needs and expectations. If you can’t try it, don’t buy it.

Pro Review Sources:
Hybrid Table Saws (Tools of the Trade)
Hybrid Saws (ConsumerSearch.com review aggregation)

Hybrid Table Saw Resources from ToolCrib:
Grizzly 1023 vs. Delta Unisaw and Craftsman Hybrid
A Table Saw Buying Guide: Benchtop vs Contractor vs Cabinet vs Hybrid

Hybrid Table Saw Forum Discussions:
Best Hybrid Table Saw?
Hybrid Table Saw
Hybrid table saws
hybrid table saw review
table saw
Newbie needs help picking out a hybrid table saw
contractor vs hybrid table saw
New Table saw
Wait for Woodtek 10″ Hybrid…or
is this Grizzly hybrid a quality saw?
grizzly hybrid table saw
New Tablesaw Purchase – Hybrid or Cabinet?
Need table saw recommendations/advice
Steel City hybrid saw with riving knife and granite top
table saw?
Hybrid Saws
Anybody got a Hybrid Table Saw?